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Latest Projected Seedings – Where Are They?

As regular readers will know, normally by now after a seedings revision I like to have the latest projected seedings list live and right up to date, but following Monday’s revision I have decided to hold off due to the lack of official clarification as to which points will be removed at the season’s crucial second cut-off, which will decide amongst other things, who will be part of the Masters. Click below a more detailed discussion…

  • Click here to view the projected seedings list as of cut-off point one
  • Click here to view the 2012/13 calendar, including cut-off points

Introduction

As readers may recall, prior to the first cut-off point this season, there was some uncertainty as to which points would be removed after UKPTC2. Initially I had taken an educated guess, based upon discounting events staged over two years prior to cut-off point, that events from the first three PTC events of 2010 would be removed.

It turned out however that World Snooker would deduct the points from just the first two PTC events of 2010, presumably because up until that point, only two PTC events had been staged thus far in the 2012/13 season.

Revision Two

The second cut-off now comes after the International Championship tournament on 4th November 2012. This will decide the seedings/competitors for the UK Championship, German Masters, Masters and Shoot Out tournaments

The tournaments that took place between now and then in 2010 are as follows:

  • PTC3 – (6th-8th August 2010)
  • PTC4 – (14th-16th August 2010)
  • EPTC1 – (26th-29th August 2010)
  • Shanghai Masters – (6th-12th September 2010)
  • World Open – (18th-26th September 2010)
  • EPTC2 – (30th September-10th October 2010)
  • PTC5 – (7th-10th October 2010)
  • PTC6 – (14th-17th October 2010)
  • EPTC3 – (22nd-24th October 2010)
  • EPTC4 – (28th-31st October 2010)

In comparison, the tournaments to be staged in the corresponding period in 2012 can be set out as follows:

  • EPTC1 – (23-26th August 2012)
  • UKPTC3 – (5th-9th September 2012)
  • Shanghai Masters – (17th-23rd September 2012)
  • APTC2 – (23rd-27th September 2012)
  • EPTC2 – (5th-7th October 2012)
  • EPTC3 – (18th-21st October 2012)
  • International Championship – (28th October-4th November 2012)

So what is the answer?

One interpretation is that with four new PTC events to be added (discounting the APTC2 event), as well as two full-ranking events within each period, World Snooker will simply remove the points from the next four PTC events staged in 2010, as well as the World Open and Shanghai Masters.

Chronologically therefore, the points from PTC3, PTC4, EPTC1 and EPTC2, in addition to those from the World Open and Shanghai Masters tournaments could be set to fall.

This is the approach that has been suggested by the people who update the relevant pages at Wikipedia, though this appears to be based on nothing more than my above theory.

How else could they do it? The issue of the World Open is at first sight a curious one given the fact that there is now a World Open tournament which takes place later in the season, though it was notable last term that the event was treated as an entirely new tournament, as demonstrated by the decision to install John Higgins as top seed, rather than 2010 champion Neil Robertson. On this basis, I would expect the points from the 2010 event to be dropped at the next revision.

The big question therefore seems to be regarding which PTC points will come off and when. On paper the idea that World Snooker will deduct the points from a PTC event when another is played would appear to be a reasonable one, but to me there are a couple of obvious flaws to this theory.

The first is of course the fact that APTCs excluded, there are two fewer PTC events this season in comparison to two years ago, so when would the other two be removed?

The second factor is that the points for the first two PTC events from 2010 were actually taken off much earlier in the season, ie the points for PTC2 were not taken off after UKPTC2 this season, but earlier on following I think the Wuxi Classic, though I am open to correction on this.

All in all then, it appears to me to be very difficult to say with any certainty which points will have been removed by the time of the second cut-off, and as a result I am very reluctant to prepare a projected seedings list based on nothing more than a theory. I know that there are a few players who follow the list that I produce on this site and the last thing that I would want is for someone to think that they have qualified for the Masters, only for me to have been wrong!

I do find it strange that this far into the season, we seem to be no closer to knowing just how World Snooker are going to treat what in reality is a massive issue for the players. Of course the calendar is constantly evolving, even now at this stage of the season, but I had hoped for more certainty by now concerning this issue.

It is surely important that some sort of clarification is forthcoming so that everyone knows where they stand, not just for me as a blogger, but the for the players themselves. I know from the traffic on my site and the emails/comments I receive, that while rankings might not be quite as important as they once were, they are still very important to both players and fans alike.

Personally, I do not see what would be wrong with a system more akin to that employed in tennis where points remain for a period of 52 calendar weeks before being removed, no more, no less. I do find it odd to have a two-year ranking list where there are points being deducted before two years are up and others that are remaining for longer than two years, even if only by a few days. With a more arbitrary cut-off, at least everybody would know where they stand and we would have a true two-year system.

But that personal thought aside, if anybody hears anything then do feel free to let me know and once the situation has been clarified, I will of course post the updated list here at PSB…

 

  • wild

    matt

    this whole post and the typing you had to do is down to USELESS People at the WPBSA.

    why the secret ?

    Players don’t know
    Fans don’t Know
    nobody knows

  • dannyboy

    Why was Steve put in a round earlier for the international open this week? Answer because he was ranked 51 currently. So the cut off point for the rankings must come into effect after this event as your previous article didnt name Steve as dropping out of the top 48? Like most I am confused but I am assuming that whatever points drop off Steve is in a better position than Jimmy who is drawn a round later in the international open. Any explanation on SD’s ranking position would be appreciated as if he is down in the last tier of 48 – 64 for a while it will be a disaster for him and his fans? Thanks

    • mikets

      Steve Davis had already dropped out of the top 48 at the end of last season – he was seeded in the top 48 for the first three events of this season since O’Sullivan, Hendry and Jogia were all absent (and several others for Australia). Since O’Sullivan is back for the International Open and Jogia has dropped down the rankings the only top 48 player missing is now Hendry so Jimmy White, ranked 49, is the only player outside the top 48 to get a top-48 seeding.

  • snoopy2608

    I’m guessing points from 5 ptcs will be dropped but no more than a guess at the moment.

    Clarification would be good – it would also be good if they were publishing a money list for this season as the rankings are transitioning that way (hopefully they’ll put the prize money levels for the international championship up today as it starts tomorrow)

    by the way the current top 4 on the money list is Walden, Hawkins, Bingham and M Davis (with Gould, Ebdon, Campbell and Maguire completing the top 8) – still early days though

  • Allineas

    I really miss the Latest Projected Seedings… Wonder if WS even have decided which points will come off…

    • wild

      Well that really would be incompitence.

      Jesus Christ how hard can it be.

      The Points id Deduct at Cut 2

      EPTC 1 Paul Hunter Classic
      PTC 3
      Shanghai Masters
      World Open
      EPTC 2 The Brugge Open
      EPTC 3 The Russelsheim Cup

      and points to be added

      ET 1 Paul Hunter Classic
      UK PTC 3
      Shanghai Masters
      APTC 2
      ET 2
      ET 3
      International Championship

      Points id Deduct at Cut 3

      PTC 4
      PTC 5
      PTC 6
      EPTC 4 The MIUS Cup
      UK Championship

      Points to be Added

      APTC 3
      UK PTC 4
      ET 4
      UK Championship

      Points to be Deducted Cut 4

      EPTC 5 RUHR Championship
      EPTC 6 The Prague Classic
      German Masters
      Welsh Open
      PTC Grand Finals
      China Open

      Points to be added

      ET 5
      ET 6
      German Masters
      Welsh Open
      World Open
      Potential Ranking Event ????????????????
      PTC Grand Finals
      China Open

      Then end of Season 2011 WC Deducted and 2013 WC Added

      Its hardly Rocket Science so why the Bloody Hold up ???

      • Wolfgang

        I think that would be a crap way of doing it to be honest, wild. The 2010 PTC was concluded by the 2010 UK, so by your methodology you’d drop the UK points but keep points from some of the PTCs? Obviously the most logical way of doing it would be to be to have a strict two year cycle but World Snooker’s approach always has been to take something simple and make it complicated. It would be easy enough for them to say which points are coming off when, but I half suspect they do it on the fly so they have some control over the players that make the cut.

        • wild

          what are you on

          These are the Points to be added in the Next Period of Rankings

          ET 1 Paul Hunter Classic
          UK PTC 3
          Shanghai Masters
          APTC 2
          ET 2
          ET 3
          International Championship

          there is no Mention of the UK because those Points are not relevant before next cut off so how id do it is

          2012 ET 1 Paul Hunter Classic Replacing 2010 EPTC 1 Paul Hunter Classic
          2012 UK PTC 3 Replacing 2010 PTC 3
          2012 Shanghai Masters Replacing 2010 Shanghai Masters
          2012 APTC 2 Nothing to Replace
          2012 ET 2 Replacing 2010 EPTC 2 The Brugge Open
          2012 ET 3 Replacing 2010 EPTC 3 The Russelsheim Cup
          2012 International Championship Nothing to Replace

          • Wolfgang

            Wild, you say you would deduct the Uk points at the third cut-off and deduct eptc 5 & 6 at the fourth. EPTC 5 & 6 were played before the UK in 2010, so you would be dropping the UK points before the eptc 5 & 6 points which were played BEFORE the UK. I am saying that is a bad way of doing it, because the UK points shouldn’t come off before the eptc 5 & 6 points.

  • Dan

    Matt, On a slightly different note, have you got a list of players that are on a 2-year tour card? Thanks!

    • snoopy2608

      everyone ranked 65 and below is on a 2 year card (they all started season with zero points)

  • Miko

    This is a bit of a farce. The players need to know where they stand.

    How can we get World Snooker to do something about this?