As the rights and wrongs of the decision to suspend Stephen Lee (as detailed here), are debated, attention turns to the effect that this will have on the Premier League, in which he was scheduled to play his final match next Thursday…
Having lost his three matches in the competition to date, reigning PTC Grand Finals champion Stephen Lee was not a contender to reach the play-off stages of the 2012 Premier League in any event, but his suspension has now left the organisers with a couple of headaches.
The first and most immediate is that of next Thursday’s scheduled meeting in Penzance, where Lee was set to play Mark Allen in the opening match, followed by Neil Robertson taking on Stuart Bingham thereafter.
While there had been a mixture of speculation and wishful thinking on Twitter as to whether someone like Ronnie O’Sullivan could replace Lee and play an exhibition instead, following a tweet by regular League referee Paul Collier, it now appears as though the evening may be called off altogether…
“I believe that Penzance has been cancelled and there will be 3 matches at Guildford. Not sure about tables etc”
Of course there will no doubt be issues with as to how this will affect the television contracts and sponsorship agreements in place, while staging three matches in Guildford would in theory require Stuart Bingham to play twice in one evening, unless there is a further reshuffle of the fixture list between now and the end of the league phase.
The other issue of course is what will now happen as far as the league table is concerned, given the fact that Lee (and therefore Mark Allen), will not be able to complete their four matches.
While it is just guesswork at this stage, to me the most obvious way to proceed would be to remove the results of the three matches from the league table involving Lee, effectively leaving a four-man league stage. Of course the obvious drawback to this would be that it would be hard on Judd Trump and Peter Ebdon if the qualifiers were to be decided on frame difference, as they had both beaten Lee 5-1 earlier in the league.
The only other obvious alternative would be to hand Mark Allen a 6-0 walkover, although again that would provide him with a boost as far as the frames difference is concerned.
How would you resolve the situation?
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JohnH
October 13, 2012 at 6:49 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
The obvious solution is to remove all Stephens matches from the league table.
Regarding Penzance as 3 players are still contracted to attend and tickets have been sold they should go ahead with one match as scheduled and have an exhibition between Mark Allen and A. N. Other (with high break prize and normal league money per frame). Surely it is not difficult to find a pro player willing to play for a very good nights pay that is not flying to antwerp until the Friday- or bring in a Legend (I know Jimmy and Ronnie have another committment but if you could persuade Hendry or Parrott to play it would be a major boost for ticket sales etc!) or Andy Hicks who would take with him some regional support. Even getting Mike Hallet or Neal Foulds out of the commentary box would be worth a go!
To not deliver a show at Penzance would be terrible PR for World Snooker
Wolfgang
October 13, 2012 at 8:21 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
The obvious solution would have been to not suspend him until after next week’s match, surely they could have held off a week? The only thing they can really do is pull all of the Lee points from the table, which would be ironic for Trump since he would lose his frame count advantage over John Higgins in the league.
wild
October 14, 2012 at 1:01 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
Well that’s a load of Bollocks Not suspend a player because of Sky obligations
if a player is going to be suspended a Governing body should act because its Right and not based on TV Contracts.
kildare cueman
October 13, 2012 at 8:22 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
I’d give Allen the points for a win but leave his frame difference the same as it is now. Some shocker all the same. Apparantley he was trading at 4-6 on betfair when clearing the colours in the last frame. He should be 1-20 at that stage but somebody still fancied him to lose, and was prepared to wager a lot of money that he would. I like watching Lee. Very good player and a classy cueist. What a shame if he is guilty.
PL
October 13, 2012 at 9:39 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
With regards the Lee situation, I think this can summize that Lee investigation will not be concluded by the end of the league stage, as I suggested moving the schedule so that Lee’s final Group match would be the tenth match in the league for that season. By which stage the Group may well be resolved or Lee may wind up being free to play again. If not then and Allen still can have a say in the Group then a victory could be awarded but if Allen and Lee were both out of the running by then, the match could be halved, 3-3.
I didn’t think it was frame difference I thought it was frames won????
The normal practice would be to expunge the record, and to act against it would be dangerous with a precedent set. However that’s harsh when you have people who have had a considerable record earned against Lee, take Ebdon and Trumps 5-1 victories that expungement can come at some considerable cost. In particular when the number of group fixtures would be considerably reduced. Considering that only Allen has anything to gain from the awarding of a victory?
If you’re going to award any margin then it might come down to having to award all of those involved in the league so far the same margin, if JH had won 5-1 then that could have been the same margin for any award to Allen.
Cancelling a night would be a big mistake in my opinion. The Darts Premier League had the withdrawal of Wayne Mardle during a league season and they arranged exhibition matches to cover the shortfall. I’m not sure why that couldn’t be done now because a three match session would be going on to midnight unless it started at 6am.
To answer the question I’d rejig the schedule so that you had Lee v Allen as the tenth match – and if it’s not resolved by then award Allen two points for the game if it doesn’t get played (but by no margin) – Play an exhibition match as well in the empty slot.
What’s clear is that the contingency plan will need to be announced very quickly.
Wolfgang
October 13, 2012 at 9:57 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
Frame difference and frames won are the same thing when you all play the same number of frames.
Wolfgang
October 13, 2012 at 10:01 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
Another solution would be to bring a match forward to next week from the final league slot and use the final league slot to have a play-off between Allen and the player in 2nd place. But maybe such logical German thinking may be too much for you erratic Brits.
PL
October 13, 2012 at 10:30 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
Another solution would be to bring a match forward to next week from the final league slot and use the final league slot to have a play-off between Allen and the player in 2nd place. But maybe such logical German thinking may be too much for you erratic Brits
That’s a decent idea in theory but you couldn’t just make any play-off to be held between Allen and who finishes second in the table because of the fact that Allen is in fourth place and without playing Lee still could wind up finishing in fourth place out of a league of four. Which wouldn’t make a play-off with second place tenable
As it stands as a four team group the standing is as follows
1. Allen, P2 W1 D0 L1 F6 A6 Pts 2
2. Higgins, P1 W1 D0 L0 F4 A2 Pts 2
2. Trump, P1 W1 D0 L0 F4 A2 Pts 2
4. Ebdon P2 W0 D0 L2 F4 A8 Pts 0
Higgins and Trump are tied because they’ve yet to play.
Considering the matches that remain between these four removing Lee from the League would eliminate Ebdon from contention of qualifying for the play-offs which though distant, he still presently could actually make so Lee pulling out is by no means in his interest.
I agree that they should move the other matches up the schedule. That would give them until November 15th before a definite action had to be taken, which would be to award Allen two points by which time (though unlikely) a resolution may have been reached.
I’ve said awarding a 6-0 win is dangerous because it could mean someone benefits from not playing. I think that the two points should suffice
To ensure an equal comparison for players on level points you could make it a percentage rather than actual frames, so Higgins won x% of his 24 frames and Allen won x% of his 18 frames (if the Lee match didn’t take place)
However, if any play-off was to be held then I think it’d have to be between the third in Group A and the runner up of Group B which would mean that the qualifiers would have played the same number of matches (give or take the winner of Group B)
Like I said in my original post, a decision needs to be made on this quickly so everyone knows where they stand going into the remainder of the season.
Cab
October 14, 2012 at 4:52 am (UTC 0) Link to this comment
There’s absolutely no way they can just award 2 points without any frames. Everybody else had the opportunity to win 6 frames against Lee, so as Allen doesn’t get that opportunity, he should get a 6-0 win. Or Lee’s matches should be wiped out completely. Those are the only two somewhat fair solutions. In all cases, somebody is either going to get an advantage by being awarded frames without winning (if they don’t award frames, then the other players get an even bigger advantage), or, if Lee’s matches are wiped out, lose an advantage they gained by winning Lee with a good margin.
Comparing frame win percentages doesn’t work either, because everybody else had the opportunity to play an easier opponent (in theory Lee was an easier opponent as he lost his matches, obviously could have been very capable of winning them as well).
Andre
October 15, 2012 at 1:21 am (UTC 0) Link to this comment
Yeah I agree with Cab there… Any decision they make regarding Lee’s suspension from the game until this matter is solved is always going to either give an advantage to a player or players, or hinder some too, so no system apllied here can be totally fair, it just can’t.
For me, I think all of Lee’s matches should be removed from the league table… as some of you have already said, it will be unfair to players like Ebdon and Trump who had comprehensive 5-1 wins against him, but that for me could in theory be the fairer action to make.
Either that or have Allen win 6 nill as he obviously hasn’t got a chance to play that match. It will be very interesting indeed to see what the organizers will decide about this.
Wolfgang
October 13, 2012 at 11:00 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
If Trump beats Allen, and Higgins wins one his remaining matches then it all becomes moot anyway, so it’s probably best to just play out the league as it stands. I suppose if Allen isn’t awarded the match and 6 frames (since Lee technically forfeits them) then he could probably sue Barry Hearn for violation of their contract (ooh the irony!).
They should probably play the Trump/Allen match in its place on Thursday and then if Trump wins problem solved!
Trent love
October 14, 2012 at 3:32 am (UTC 0) Link to this comment
What about potential prize money lost . Highest break chance, century chances . Massive prize money differences. Why should mark allen lose out? Premier league should get special dispencerary for lee to play final round seeing he cant make it. Would solve all problems. Suspend betting on this match. Simple. No need to move anything. #aussieGenius lol
wild
October 14, 2012 at 1:06 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
Who cares what happens to the PL
Lets not make a mountain out of a mole Hill the thing was always a Farcical Circus Lee Suspension Just is the Icing on the Cake.
Wolfgang
October 15, 2012 at 4:57 am (UTC 0) Link to this comment
It’s an important tournament. There are only six major events now: WC, UK, Masters, Welsh, German Masters, Premier League. The Premier League is especially important because it tides us over until the season properly starts with the UK. I don’t count the Chinese events because the tables don’t play right due to the humidity.
pat
October 14, 2012 at 2:33 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
The obvious solution to me is get Ronnie in place of Lee give him Lees points ,he should then go on and win the league as per norm.
wild
October 14, 2012 at 10:15 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
If Ronnie took Lee’s Place wins 6-0 against Allen he wouldn’t qualify for the Play Offs so he wouldn’t win it.
Lauris
October 14, 2012 at 3:03 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
Hmm…
“The WPBSA have concluded that it would not be appropriate for Stephen Lee to continue to compete on the World Snooker Tour whilst these investigations are undertaken and therefore WPBSA Chairman Jason Ferguson has taken the decision to suspend Stephen from competition whilst this enquiry is ongoing.”
From this I understood that Lee is suspended from World Snooker Tour (events organized by WPBSA). While PL is organized by Matchroom Sport. So, where’s the problem?
matt2745
October 14, 2012 at 3:04 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
When Barry Hearn came back onto the scene the PL was made into a World Snooker event, technically it’s WPBSA organised now I think I’m right in saying.
Lauris
October 14, 2012 at 3:28 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
You’re probably right, but I think World Snooker should clearly state which tournaments are included in the World Snooker Tour. Because at this point Hearn was the only connection I could see between World Snooker and Matchroom. And I’ve never considered PL to be an event of WS (but a tournament of different promoter; smth like World Series of Snooker was). So, that’s why I have at least 1% of a doubt regarding the statement.
matt2745
October 14, 2012 at 3:30 pm (UTC 0) Link to this comment
True, I wouldn’t be able to find it written down, I just remember Barry saying it at a press conference, 2010 I think